A CONVERSATION WITH THE MASTER by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

(May 2002, Santa Monica, California) by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:

Spiritual path demands two things. First, authenticity. Are you authentic? Whatever you are doing, are you authentic? The second thing it demands is intensity. How intense are you, in anything you’re doing. If you are just lukewarm, there is no progress in spiritual path. Do you have the intensity of anything, desire? Do you desire something with such intense, with such intensity? Do you have longing with such intensity or are you happy with such intensity? Just like a child you know its so happy, so intensely happy. Its not just and smiling. The smile and joy pours out from its whole body.

Haven’t you noticed that? Have you seen, small baby, 6 month old baby, she how it laughs, when it laughs is joy contained in a little lukewarm fashion? (laughter) The joy of a child bursts! Similarly the life force in you should burst out from you. Every cell of your body should/be vibrant, should exhibit the life energy. Your whole system radiates. That is spiritual, then you say oh you are doing something. You’re living your potential. Intensity in your expression, intensity in your experience, intensity even in your misery will take you on spiritual path. (laughter)

Not lukewarm misery, you’re so desperate and you cry your heart out, you know without shame. You are on the path. You are a seeker. So options. Intensely miserable, intense longing or intense desire or intense expression of joy. There is no fifth condition. And authentically, not just dramatizing it. You know you can make drama. (Guruji laughs) Make a mood. But that doesn’t come from deep within. If that is the case then all the actors and actresses would be living that full potential. But it is not so. Are you getting what I’m saying?

Intense expression of life. The second sign of a seeker. That doesn’t mean you intensely get angry and and go. There are so many people who intensely get angry and justify that. We should not use knowledge as a shield. Use knowledge as an umbrella, not as a shield. Because you are at loss, if you use knowledge as a shield, to cover up your, whatever, shortcomings, then you’re at loss. And again, when you recognise shortcomings don’t hold on to them, this is another problem.

Oh I’m no good, I’m no good. Self blame. If you are blaming yourself, remember, there is no chance for you to make any progress. Coz if you’re blaming yourself, how can you go towards something which you are blaming? You try to stay away from that something which you blame. And if you blame yourself, will you ever be able to go deep within yourself? Huh? Self blame prevents you from settling down. And if you cannot settle down, you are definitely going to blame others around you. See we oscillate between self blame and blaming others. This is the biggest pitfall on the path of evolution and the path to god. So whenever you blame, you’re not blaming yourself, you’re blaming god.

So that golden rule we need to find, that gold line we need to find. That centre point where you recognise the shortcomings but not start blaming yourself. The mere recognition take you further. Not denying, and not blaming, but recognising. Are you all with me? Is your mind still here? I want 100% of you here. Don’t want only 30% of you here and then another 50% out somewhere in Santa Monica. (laughter) Huh? 100% Intense! Do anything intense, listening, seeing, tasting, smelling, crying, singing… I tell you it’s the shortest way.

Patanjali, the propounder (?) of yoga, he said that… teevra samveganam asana. The one who has the intensity, for them, the yoga, the union or the oneness of the mind, becomes so easy. Are you all here? YES!!??? (Guruji laughs/everybody laughs) Often when people are upset, they are intense. And people who are peaceful, who are in love and joy, they don’t seem to exibit the intensity. Isnt it? I would call it the tamsik peace. Means very dull. Sort of inertia. (laughs)

Inertia can also be interpreted as peaceful. But the dynamism is often associated with? Anger, rage, frustration. Where we find those who are intense even in peace? Are you getting what I’m saying. An intense peace. (laughter) Is a goal you can aim at. And that’s what this society, the world needs today. Isnt it? Hmmm? (Guruji taps on the mic) Let me see how many of you are really smiling and how many of you are really not.

You know we have made our smile so expensive. We smile once in a while. Some time, now or then. And our anger, frustration we distribute it freely, free of cost. Cant we make our smile cheaper? Wisdom is when you make your smile cheap… in fact distribute your smile free of cost and make your anger very expensive. You know when we were in schools, if we are upset someday or one day, you know, we were made to feel ashamed about it.

If someone loses themselves, loses their… what you call… lose the temper, everybody would look and them, say what is wrong with them? If a boy or girl in the class shouts or does something, everybody wonder, what has happened to this person. So many days people will remember, oh that person lost the temper, coz losing temper was not considered to be a very good thing to. Coz the ideal was the Samadhi. Equanimity, how equanimity and how unperturbed a person was. That was given, that child or that student was really thought to be very high, very, its good. I mean pride was attached to unperturbedness.

But today pride somehow got attached to rage, frustration, aggressiveness. Aggression got itself hooked to prestige. Violence got hooked to… coz the ideal of Mahatma Gandhi, he had just, maybe 10 years he must have gone. So everybody admired Mahatma Gandhi. So anyone who is peaceful and… always ranked high. Was given, you know, respect. But just within few years, everything is changed. Isnt it? And Gandhi used to read the second chapter of Bhagvad Gita everyday. And second chapter this is what its said… how to be equanimous in your attitude. Impartail and equanimity was given so much importance, pride.

Its not suppression, again. To whichever values you attach the pride to, that is what blossoms in life. Isnt it? You attach pride to violence, then violence will blossom, come forth in life. Violence will be exhibiting in every action. Why not to smile more? You know, just look at the person next to you and see if they’re really smiling, if they’re not just pinch them and make them smile. (laughter) Tell them you either cry or smile. Nothing inbetween. (laughter) This is a step to become like a child again, a child either cries or smiles. Express yourself. And life finds an authentic expression, it progresses in the path of spirit, for spirit is truth, spirit is love, spirit is joy, spirit is all that! That we aspire. Isnt that? Isnt that so? Hmmmm?

You know what stops you, what bottles you is your problems. And you know everybody else have the same problems. Slightly different problem. People say I want to talk to you Guruji alone, I said theres no need. (laughter) In the ashram I kept 5 baskets, I know what the problems are. Either the problem is about relationship, one basket. (laughter) Job or finance, another basket. (laughter) Health and health related problem, third basket. (laughter) And miscellaneous, forth one. (laughter) Fifth, big worries about the society, about whatever, the country, about the nation, about world, environment, all these problems, you know. Put in that. Or any complains about me. (laughter) Put it in there.

Guruji you never meet with me, you never spend time, too many people, I don’t get time, I don’t get to do this, etc, etc, whatever. You don’t give me personal attention. Huh… put all that in there. (mad laughter) 5 Baskets, all the problems. There is nothing. And I have my own ways to reply to them all. Life is too short to keep solving one problem after another, I tell you. Just wake up and walk ahead, problems will get solved by themselves. You’re not alone my dear, wake up! You’re not alone, all the problems are getting solved and there is some power with you. Whos walking you through all the problems. And when you feel that intense desire to offer, write it down, put it, give it, send it, do anything. (laughter) Huh?

I’ve said, teacher is a garbage collector. (laughs) He wont say, oh this is yesterdays garbage, this is third days garbage, no why did you give me. No, no question. Any amount of garbage you can give. You the person who comes to collect garbage in front of your homes, they don’t say, they don’t quantify you. You can only give only 2kgs of garbage. I wont take anymore. (laughter) You’ll be in trouble. Unlimited quantity of garbage, dump it. And you have hesitation even to do that. This is irony. This is the irony. That we have hesitation to drop a garbage. Are you all there. (YES) (Guruji waves to everyone)

See I have no shame I tell you. (laughter) Nor am I shy. I just say whatever comes here. If you take it, take it, if you don’t want to take it, just drop it along with the garbage. (Guruji laughs/everyone laughs/applause) Give it back to me, no problem. But don’t sit just like, lifeless statue. (laughs) Ya? (Yes, WHOOOOW) (laughter) You know that’s why its called satsang. Satsang means you know what? Where you can just drop all, what people would think about me sort of things and authentically be there. 100% Authentic company, the company of the truth. Ya? Ok, now I’ll see the questions. Do we need to go through the questions? (laughter) Answered them all huh? (Guruji laughs)

People normally ask questions and Guruji aptly answers.

Thank you for the grace you have brought to my life. (Paras note: Not a question)

How does one attain optimum physical health?
Don’t worry about health a lot. (Applause)

Could you speak on noncausal joy?
Non-causal joy, you know the cause and effect, is again an illusion on one level. You know some of you have this problem, ok I read all these books, I know all this knowledge, but in practical life it is not applicable so what is the use. How many of you have had this sort of question, raise their hands. My dear you should know there are two types of science. One is the pure science, the other is the applied science.

You learn about thermodynamics, aerodynamics, but all that you learn in physics, thermodynamics, aerodynamics, all that is not applicable in everyday life. Is it? But the knowledge of it helps you in some point of time. You can just learn being a mechanic, how to repair a car, can take a diploma course. Not even a diploma, 3 months, go and sit with a mechanic, he will tell you how to fix a car. But that is not enough to be an engineer. An engineer will have to know the whole mechanics, the dynamics of how the car functions. Right? So all that, as a theory, you read, you study, may not come to your day to day use.

But never discard them, sometime in life they will come to your use, your help. It should just be there. Are you getting what I’m saying? At some point in life in time, that will come to the help. If you see only practical application of knowledge, then nobody will study physics and chemistry, the pure science. But without pure science there is no depth. There is no deeper understanding of the mechanics. There is no further innovations. How can you do further innovation when you don’t have knowledge in depth about it. So similarly all this studying, this knowledge hearing. Though you may feel its not applicable to life now. Some point of time, when there is a dire need, this will come up.

And they do help your life. So there are two kinds, one help that comes direct and another help which is indirect help. There is one kind of joy which is direct, which is eminent, the other kind of joy which is indirect, which we do not obviously see the connection. Hmmm? Like brushing your teeth everyday, doesn’t give you any great joy directly, but it prevents you from toothache. It helps you from not having toothache, so in that manner it is aiding your happiness, joy, indirect manner. Same with disciplines, sometimes the disciplines that you practice, exercise or yoga, meditation, may not give you an immediate pleasure or joy or happiness. But in the indirect fashion, they do aid your growth. Are you getting what I’m saying?

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What is the significance of the number 108?
Significance is what we attach to it. One of the significance that people have attached to 108 is, there are 9 planets… they counted 9, though there may be 10, 11. So 9 planets and 12 constellations. So when 9 planets move through 12 constellation, they make 108 changes. Of these 108 changes, they may be pleasant, unpleasant, whatever. To nullify the unpleasant, and to increase the pleasant effect of these changes, they would chant the mantras or the sound so many times. This was an ancient way to do that.

Why do all the god, saints, wizards, prophets keep long hair, beard and robes? (laughter/applause)
Its just their uniform so you can recognise them. (laughter) People can recognise only through dresses. Coz they don’t have eyes to see their spirit behind, so perhaps this is a uniform. There was one Indian freedom fighter, he was a great scholar, he had written many books and all. Chatterji or someone, huh? Vakilchandraji. He was invited for dinner. In the British tent, he was invited for a dinner, for a scholarly thing. And he was supposed to wear coat and you know, proper dress with a tie, coat and all that. But he just walked with a robe like this dhoti and a simple shirt, he was not allowed in.

So he went back home and he put on the suit and came, and at the dining table he was sitting, when the dinner was served, he was feeding it in the pockets. (laughs) People asked him why is he. I was not allowed to the dinner, its only this coat that could let me inside this place, so I am feeding the coat. (laughter) Used to say, comeon eat. You eat. (laughter) So don’t have to be hung up on the dresses. Long hair and beard, its just I don’t have time to do all that shaving and… ok. (laughter) These are not an essential requirement for spiritual growth. Just wake up and see, you are connected to god. However you are. Its like you know a mother looks at some children are happy and cheerful, some are all the time waning and wailing and what do you call… crying and complaining. So you choose what type of child you want to be. (Guruji laughs/everybody laughs) Of course the former one otherwise you wouldn’t be here.

Are we all god really? Is this absolutely 100% reality? Please expound on.
(Laughter) Certain questions, its easy to say no and get away with it. (Guruji laughs) But that is not true. (Guruji laughs even more) Forget about god, first you have to tell me what is your concept of god. But if you just say god is love, I tell you, you are love. Even if you are angry, upset, frustrated, whatever state you are, you are still love. Love distorted, fermented. (laughter) Spoiled a little bit here and there. All the negative emotions are nothing but distortions of love. Love when it gets fermented becomes jealousy, anger, hatred, all these things. Frozen love becomes hatred. Just a little heat to it, it will melt. Hmmm?